Episode 366
Career Conversations with Reesa Woolf PhD
Reesa is an introvert raised in a family of extroverts.
She has had an interesting career specializing in other introverts and a dynamic life experiencing the world.
Social media links
www.LinkedIn.com/in/reesawoolfphd
www.Facebook.com/reesawoolfphd
Link to website
Transcript
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Traveling Introvert Career Conversations. I am here with Reesa Woolf, PhD. Hi, Reesa. How are you today?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Hello, Janice. It is a pleasure to be here and finally be able to talk about my secret life of introversion.
Janice Chaka [:Should not be secret. We need more introvert speaking out about their lives. So you mentioned straight away your your secret life of introversion. In your mind, what is an introvert?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I will describe myself only because I didn't I'm not an expert on The, although I am an expert on some aspects of it. And that is I was an introvert. I'm just born an introvert. I adore spending time with myself and talking to no humans. It just makes me super happy. When I was a child, though, what makes me kind of interesting and how it really affected my life is that I was raised in a family of extroverts. My mother and, mother were very, social and they weren't social. They were outgoing.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:They really actually weren't social, but they were they were charming. And I have my uncle and my father led everything in the church on on the weekend. I mean, it was I had all these role models, but I didn't do it. And when I was in high school and had to actually give a speech, I said to my dad, well, how do you do it? I'm really scared about it. And he said I said, how do you do it? Oh, he sang at people's weddings. I forgot to say that. He he he was a wonderful singer, and he was an optometrist, but everybody asked him to sing at their weddings. And when I said, how do you get up and sing at weddings? And he said, well, I know I have the the best voice in the room.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And I thought, oh, well, I don't know everything, but I do know today what I'm what I'm gonna talk about. So it that was the first step in getting an introvert to do, you know, outgoing kinds The things that are that are looked for in our society.
Janice Chaka [:Oh, so let me let me see if I understand this correctly. For you, it is about not liking human interaction.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I'm sorry to admit it, but, I mean, I I love humans, and it's every time I meet someone in preparing for this, I thought, how do I feel about people? When I meet someone new, I'm hoping they're gonna be a new friend. It's kind of like the Kermit the frog thing. Every person is a friend I haven't met yet, and I'm always kinda disappointed if they don't turn out to be at least a colleague or a friend. But I like to meet people, and I am very typically introverted in that I have a very small circle of friends with whom I speak intimately. But I'm not I can't stand chitchat and small talk, and I don't have a lot of people that I stay in touch with. I do business wise, but in my personal life, I I really keep it small because, because I'm a typical introvert in that I do a lot of thinking that other people go, and I I don't want their feedback on on what's going on with me. So I share with people similar to me.
Janice Chaka [:Okay. And so you mentioned, like, people and the chitchat and the small talk. What is it about that that you don't like? Do you find it draining or a waste of time? What is it you don't like about chitchat small talk?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I find it completely boring. Mhmm. It's a waste of my time. I could be I could be looking I could be doing anything except I've always I've traveled a lot in my life. And when I meet people, you know, I Traveling I often have traveled by myself. I wanted to there's a little things bunch of things I wanted to share with people of how I've survived as an, introvert. But when I meet people and they say, oh, we met these people and and, you know, we stay in touch with The, and I'll and I go, these are people that you talked about The meal or the walk you took or the tour you took. I mean, like, you know, low level stuff.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I always wondered, what else do you come up to talk about? When I when I have moved away from people, we have nothing in common. I guess I'm kind of that's just something for me. But when I am interested in something, I'm deep. I have many, many, many Introvert, many, many, many, many, many hobbies. And when I go into something, I go really I immerse myself in it. And if I have a new hobby, oh my god. I'm I used to take courses or take the classes or travel there to go to their convention of how to make jewelry or how to how to, you know, make, this kind of furniture. I've taken tons of classes because I like to go deep.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I'm not a shallow. I just I'm I'm polite with people, and I know, you know, how to have little conversations with people. But all of those are learned traits that I use to be socially acceptable. And then as soon as I can, I get out of there and go home and get under the covers, and then I'm happy?
Janice Chaka [:So what do you as an introvert find draining?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I really don't like my time wasted by dumb stuff. If I go to a lecture and it's Career there's nothing there. The person's either not competent. If a person is not a good speaker, I'll still be there if it's good stuff. But if I'm not really inspired or learning something, I tend to just kinda go to the bathroom and not come back.
Janice Chaka [:You escape hatch. Just go to the bathroom and never to be seen again.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Same thing with with so with networking. I do deal because I have to. I do business networking, and I do wanna give a hint about how I've learned how to do all that stuff. But when I meet people, I'm I I'm polite. I know how to be interesting. But as soon as I see someone's, like, not particularly interesting or not related to me, I just say, oh, it's so nice talking to you. Would you excuse me for a second? I just wanna go over there and get another cup of soda. And, I leave.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I'm very I'm very good about that. I have no I just I really hate having my time wasted.
Janice Chaka [:And so what do you do to recharge?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Ah, so the so I have to tell you how I started to be a little more extroverted besides having all these role models, and make me realize what does good speaking look like. So I had a lot of role models to to copy. But my turning point was The. I was I didn't know that I was raised very sheltered until I till my freshman year of college. I was sitting in The I remember the moment because it was one of those special moments in life. I was looking at all of the activities that I could do in college, and I had just gone to college. So I was just leaving my hometown, and there were all of these things that I never knew existed, like going to the theater and going to the ballet and taking a class and doing this and studying Esperanto. There was just this list of things, and I thought to myself, oh my god.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:The world is interesting. And I realized at that moment how how how limited my life was, and here's the turning point. I said, from now on, whatever comes my way, I'm going to say yes. This was long before that film. And you know what? I have followed that rule the rest of my life. And because of that, I have had really great experiences and tried things that maybe I would do once and then go, good. Never again. But there are also things there are worlds, worlds that exist that that when someone said The was my was my 1st year getting out of college, my first job, this, friend that I had, she says, hey.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Do you wanna take horseback riding lessons? Well, that had never zero crossed my mind. I'm a sicker. It just didn't occur to me. I said, sure, because I say yes to every opportunity. And we went, and it was so much fun. And this is what I discovered about saying yes to things is that virtually everything and this is how I felt when I this was the first time I experienced it. When we went horseback riding, it's as if I walked up and there was a little door that I opened up. And when I went through it, there was this world that existed that I didn't know about, and then I was hooked.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And it reinforced my saying yes to things because things I don't even know about, there's a whole world. And my rule of life is if a lot of humans like something, I think I'll give it a chance because there might be some pleasure in that for me. I'm very big on pleasure. So you mentioned I'm a reveal things to you I normally don't tell other people.
Janice Chaka [:So you mentioned there about your first job. Can you tell us a little bit where what your first job was out out of college?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I am so glad you asked me that because it was such a horrible match for me, and it but it was the best gift that ever happened to me. When I was in college, I I I I actually was it turned out that you can be an introvert and still be active in college. As you as I said, I did everything. And one time, I saw that I could run for office, and I thought, well, that'd be kind of fun. Well, punchline is is that I, oh, ask me that question again because I just lost my train of thought. I imagine remembering college. College.
Janice Chaka [:Did you win? And then question 1, what was your first job?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Oh, yes. What what was my first job? Yeah. So, nobody who's listening can see this, but I have white hair. And what you have heard is true, and that is people of my age, when we grew up and we were student leaders and we were active women, they said, oh, that's really nice. Are you gonna be a nurse or a teacher or a secretary? And and I know that I wasn't the only one who's who thought that because of the 25 speech therapy majors, 20 of us were the women student leaders at the school. All of us bought the same we just didn't know. All of us should have gone to law school and business school and been entrepreneurs and stuff. But, anyway, the 1st week on the job, I went, oh my god.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I'm here. I mean, I was sitting in front of kids doing t h sounds and stuff. So, but the but here's why it was a gift because I strongly believe that every cloud has a silver lining. The silver lining was that every I was social or I was, you know, young in my twenties and dating and stuff. When I would meet a man or a woman who had an interesting job, I would say, you know, your job is interesting. Can I come visit you at your job and just find out what it's about? I'm not job hunting. It's always important to say that. I'm just curious.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I'm looking for the next step in my career. And I I I visited I can't even tell you how many people. So I've been exposed to a lot of different things, and each one kind of made me a little more sophisticated because I came from a sheltered life. And then I was in a elementary school, so I really knew nothing about any other field. And so that was really great. And then what happened from there as that evolved is I be I was so good at doing informational interviewing that people would offer me jobs, and I realized, you know, I really know how to get jobs, and most importantly, I know how to get jobs that match who you are. So, you know, that self actualization thing, that was the second thing I decided to do in college. When I saw Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, that triangle with the bottom line is safety and security, and the very top is using your most your best strengths to earn your living from, and that's self actually being yourself, self actualization, and that was in my 2nd year of college.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I went, oh, I think I'll do that. And that's why on the first job when it was, like, completely, like, a disconnect, that's when I was searching for, well, I don't even I can't choose what I want to do or what my skills are because I I had zero awareness.
Janice Chaka [:Mhmm.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And so I really came from 0, but what I did was I used all those, sick days and personal days, and I visited people. And then my first job after being a speech therapist, which, by the way, I did for 10 years because it's a pretty good gig, and I had to spend 10 years finding out what else I should do. Mhmm. I actually became a career counselor because I knew, 1, how to help people decide what they wanted. Oh, I shouldn't say this because I don't wanna do this anymore. Let me just precede this by saying, don't anyone, don't don't look up my name and call me for that. What I do now is I'm a TED Talk trainer, and I've taught public speaking for, like, 25 years because I learned how to do it. I knew what it looked like, and I was a kill I am a killer teacher.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I really know how to take complex stuff and make it simple. And what I did on my own time, just because it was fun, is I studied fear of public speaking for 25 years. So, the people who find me are introverts, who are really substantial already in their career, or they have a company already, and they have to give a big talk. But that's how it all evolved is that I just kept under the radar. Oh, and this is the part that I kept under the radar. I just always had a lot of fun, and I always did stuff I wanted to do. And I knew I didn't want children. Mhmm.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:So I didn't have any obligation to get married, and I just didn't have any good role models for marriage. Everybody I saw that was married was a little worse off because of being married. As you can see, my background completely influenced how my life turned out. But the point is is that I just whatever when there was a trip, I remember the first trip I took, it was in my speech therapy years. There was a Easter trip that you could go to Puerto Rico.
Janice Chaka [:Mhmm.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And I asked all the teachers and all the The. Nobody wanted to go on this trip, but I said, oh, well, I'll sign up. And you know what happens when you go on a trip? You meet people who wanna go on the trip. And I went, oh, well, that solves all the problems. And from then on, I traveled and took classes and just did a bunch of fun. But when I would tell people how much fun I was having, I got a lot of envy and annoyance. So I just when people say
Janice Chaka [:talking about it?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Yeah. That's okay. But but on the side, I was doing this whole, you know, public speaking thing and coaching stuff, and that's how I evolved is that I just have stayed under the radar, and I'm very careful who I I would say if I have any advice for for Introvert is to just watch out who you share with. I mean, look at the people who bring you energy, talk to them. Whoever's not on that list, stop talking to them so much.
Janice Chaka [:Yeah. And so you mentioned you did career counseling. Did you do anything between career counseling and being a public speaker coach?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I did a ton. I decided I met some people who were from Honolulu, Hawaii. I was living in San Francisco. And I said and and, oh, I know. When I was just this was still speech therapy years because I had the summers off. And I I, I went to Hawaii for the first time. I said to the travel agent, in those days, you use travel agents. I said, but isn't that like a honeymoon or place? Oh, no.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:That's fun. When I went, I was stunned. You lived in Mexico. So, you know, living in paradise, a The, I looked down at the outdoor plants, and I said, those are my indoor plants. This is better.
Janice Chaka [:Yeah. Right?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And after visiting the 3rd time, I decided why I'd met people who I like. Why don't why don't I live here? And so I lived The. And while I was there, I volunteered to be the press secretary in the lieutenant governor's race against the governor.
Janice Chaka [:Mhmm.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And when they met me or I don't know what they saw about me, but they said, oh, why don't you be our press secretary as The volunteer? I have no idea what that was, but my rule was to say, sure. Yes. And I hate I hated every part of it. Although I must say, it does look very, very good on my resume. So I did things like that. I took probably 20 other jobs because I didn't know who I was at that point. I would just I I took mostly secretary jobs and often got fired because I I those are, like, my least good skills is I I I I think and I'm like a beginner. I'm not a middle person or an ender in in projects.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:I just didn't have the skills. But each time I left a job, I would say to myself, okay. What are the 3 this is another introvert suggestion for finding work that matches you. It's after at the end of each job, I would say, what parts of this job do I like the most? So I think of the my three favorite things about the job, you know, large company, small company. Talk to people, not talk to people, create, don't whatever the skills were. And then this was part of my career Traveling. Again, I'm sorry I brought this up because I don't even tell people. I don't wanna read another resume again in my life.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:But what I did was I, I would say to people, I'm looking at the next step in my career, and I'm looking for something that has these three things, and it would be my three favorites. And and and then I'd be quiet. What kind of work does The? Since I didn't know of many kinds of work. And that's how I got looked at informational interviewing and went to the next job. And when I left that, I looked one of my 3 favorite parts of The. And that's pretty much and then it led to my being a trainer at a seminar company. Now 3 day trainings, 3 full days, and I would fly there and fly home. Always, I would go the super early the day before because every city has a cool museum or at least a restaurant that you wanna go.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:There's just something unique about places.
Janice Chaka [:Yes.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:But when I would come home, I would always feel guilty the next day that I just didn't work and I had things to do. And but after about 2 years, I went, you know, I think I have to give the the sec the day back. I have to give myself the day off.
Janice Chaka [:Yeah.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And that's that's when I was really honoring both sides of my personality. I can turn on, and it's fun for I love to teach. Seeing the light go off on in someone's eyes is really thrilling, but I always have to recover.
Janice Chaka [:Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting that it took you that long to be like, wait a minute. So maybe I should not feel guilty and I need this and that's okay.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Guilt plays a huge
Janice Chaka [:part in, like, some of the The the decisions we make in life, for better or for worse.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:No question.
Janice Chaka [:That's what And so in your current work that you do, is there something that you do consistently that you would, give us advice for someone to do consistently in their business or their career?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:No. There absolutely certain things that I do that I know work. For, when I, I was invited to Dell, the corporate, to, do some training. They have a wonderful diversity program for kids who are on the spectrum. These really, really smart kids, but they're they're very, very much on the spectrum. And, I took a, a sticky a sticky note, and I tore off the sticky Career, and I pasted it just, like, above between not between the eyes, but slightly above it. You know, like above where my eyeglasses would be. And I said to them, when you're talking to that person, look at that yellow sticky note because people that in that population were never making eye contact.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And when I said I taught them a ton of other things. But at the end, I said to their boss, so what did you think? She says, you got to make eye contact. And I noticed that that so that's in person. To everyone, just pretend there's a sticky or a or a smudge of spinach on someone's between their eyes, and look at them when you speak. And on and on virtual, you have to look at the camera and not at the faces. That's Yeah. You're like yes.
Janice Chaka [:But but then looking at the camera, you're like, oh, but there's that light thing, and then you go you go into the
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Right. But and, you know, if you have to, because if you can't stand, not look at yourself, get a sticky and put it over your own face. But this I wanna give a second piece of advice. May I?
Janice Chaka [:Mhmm. Go ahead.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:When you walk in a room, look people look at people and say with this and force a smile on your face and say, hi. Because here's the and it's not for you. It's for them to go, oh, this person's okay. Because our most primitive part of our brain is still looking at every person in our vicinity to see are they safe or not. It's not conscious. It's unconscious. And when you walk in and smile, it's just saying, hi. I'm happy to be here with you.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And that's it. Mhmm.
Janice Chaka [:So with all of that in mind and all the work that you've done, can you tell me one misconception that people have about the work that you do?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Oh, people think that fear of public speaking is permanent and in your DNA. It's completely not. It's a it's a learned behavior. It's a usually, someone was really horrible to you. It's I'm so I met this woman who, just at some event I was at. When I told her what I do, that I train these TED talk speakers and I cure public speaking fear, she says, I do the same thing. I'm a 4th grade teacher, and I have the kids get up and give a speech. And if they're not any good, I say, oh, that was terrible.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Sit down. I was, just as you are, completely speechless because I thought, 1, this woman should never be around children, and 2, she's the reason why people come to me at 35 years old with fear of public speaking. Because not only did that kid say to himself or herself, I will never get up in front of people again and be humiliated like this. Not only that kid, but every kid watching said to themselves, I am never gonna get up there and be humiliated like that. Do people remember it? No. Do they fear public speaking for that moment on? Yes. Yeah. And as you can see, that was a learnable that was learned, and it can be unlearned.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:And I'd studied with doctor Albert Ellis, the the man who invented cognitive therapy. He's like second to Freud, and I was with him in his nineties. He was his body was wrecked, but his brain was really was completely sharper than ever. And that's why I work really fast because you I it's I would say that if someone has fear of public speaking, do some research, get a good book. I know of a very good one, that, Janice will tell you about when I'm finished. But the point is, fix it because it the mistake is to think that fear of public speaking and being so self aware and self conscious, it's fixable. It's not it is not part of your makeup.
Janice Chaka [:Thank you. Thank you so very much. And now I have one last surprise question for you.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Yes, ma'am.
Janice Chaka [:And it's the one that I ask everybody. And in your opinion, is a hot dog a sandwich?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Oh, a hot dog is definitely a sandwich.
Janice Chaka [:Why?
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Because you eat it in a bun, and it's some kind of protein, and you hold it, and you eat it while you're shopping at
Janice Chaka [:Costco. Yes. Costco wins on that one. The $1 for those of you who are are not in the United States, Costco is a very big bulk buying organization. You go in, you bulk buy, but the one thing that they have that has been the same price for decades is their hot dog, and it is $1.50, and they they will fight tooth and nail to make sure it stays that way.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy.
Janice Chaka [:Carissa, thank you so very much for sharing your time and your talent with us. Can you please let the audience know where they can find out more about you and the wonderful work
Reesa Woolf PhD [:that you do? Well, my website is everybody wants to be confident. So I called my website Confident speaking, and the book that I wrote to stop introvert public speaking fear is a 100 page book because I taught it so long. I really have it where you just follow it, you'll get fixed. And that is called mister bear, like the animal bear. Mister bear speaks without fear. It's superb. It actually has it all it already is selling internationally. That was my goal.
Reesa Woolf PhD [:When I saw that bad people around the world talk like marketing and PR people, and good people don't speak up, And it you know, 3 quarters of the people in the world have public speaking fear. I thought, well, I fixed public speaking fear. I think I'm gonna write a a book that I know works, and that's what I did. So those are my two contacts.
Janice Chaka [:Excellent. Thank you so very much. Thank you, everyone. This is Janice at The Career Introvert helping you build your brand and get hired. Have a great rest of your week.
