Career Conversations with Nital Phull

Janice Chaka [: 00:00:03

Hello, and welcome to an episode of the traveling introvert career conversations. And we are here we I but there is 2 of us now. So so, very happy to have you here. I kind of, like, LinkedIn stalked You for a bit and saw you, and I was like, okay. I kinda wanna reach out and say hi. So, the first question that I ask everybody is, What does introversion mean to you?

Nital Phull [: 00:00:36

So introversion is a very interesting word to me, and you must know because on LinkedIn, Din, I talk about introversion a lot and and so do you. For me, someone who is an introvert is someone who is energized or recharges the energy by spending time in solitude or spending time with a group of close people. So that's introversion. It doesn't mean that people are shy. It doesn't mean that they're Quiet that they don't like speaking. Introverts can be fantastic leaders. They can be really talkative, especially when it's a subject they know well with people they know well, And they can be very, very bubbly.

Janice Chaka [: 00:01:11

Thank you. Okay. So with that in mind, I know that Things have changed a little. Can you tell us a little bit about the work that you currently do?

Nital Phull [: 00:01:21

Absolutely. So at the moment, I'm a corporate career coach, And I'm focusing specifically on helping female professionals navigate the workplace so they can be heard and recognized and rewarded and promoted the way they deserve to be.

Janice Chaka [: 00:01:34

And what did you do before that?

Nital Phull [: 00:01:37

So before that, and I'm still sort of part of that organization. I am in risk and consultancy, and I help organizations work through their risk profiles and making sure that they're managing risk in the right way.

Janice Chaka [: 00:01:50

Oh, this is such an interesting topic because not a lot of people talk about it. So what made you, change from one role to, the new role that you're doing now.

Nital Phull [: 00:02:01

oud person entered my life in: 2022

Nital Phull [: 00:02:39

So I've continued to do that.

Janice Chaka [: 00:02:42

And so you mentioned that, you now have a little human around. How do you find ways to recharge when you have so much going on.

Nital Phull [: 00:02:53

I was actually thinking about that today because I've My husband is working from home, but he's very busy. And I've spent, like, most of my days with her fully from morning to the evening except her nap time. But what I find is I know that when she's awake, I'm there for her, like, fully. So there's no chance for me to really recharge them. But when it's her nap time and when she sleeps at night, and I'm lucky because she is sleeping really well at the moment, I just give myself the time to actually spend Spend a little bit of time away from sort of everyone in the house, first of all, and then I sort of recharge my energy. And then spending time with my husband actually recharges me as well, so I'm quite lucky key in that sense.

Janice Chaka [: 00:03:36

Yeah. That's good, because it's it's finding that balance. And so now with the work that you do, as a corporate coach. What are some misconceptions people might have about that role?

Nital Phull [: 00:03:49

There are 2 very big misconceptions, and they come from sort of both angles. So one is that people have the misconception that a corporate career coach or any coach actually, whether it's a life coach, etcetera, that they can solve everything, and they can solve everything very quickly. And then the other misconception, I would say, is that they can solve nothing. So they really don't believe in the value of coaching. And then if we, like, dig into that a little bit more, the people who think that they can solve Everything very quickly. It is a fact that coaches can help you solve problems a lot quicker than you may have been able to do yourself. The thing is what they underestimate some of these people is the amount of work you have to put in outside of the coaching It's not just about, you know, what you learned during that coaching coaching session about yourself and any techniques, any methods. It's about the application of that outside of that session.

Nital Phull [: 00:04:46

And it's not only that, but it's also about feeding that back to your coach after to say what worked, what didn't work, what did you like, what really did you hate, so your coach can learn from you and can It's a bit like machine learning in that way. They can learn from you, and they can give you sort of better advice that might work for you as well. Then if we think about the people who think that coaches cannot solve anything for them Mhmm. Mostly, I find that those people have not really come across the right coach for them. And it doesn't mean that these coaches weren't good or they were incompetent. I'm not talking about that at all. It's actually just they just probably didn't click with them. There's a little bit of a difference, and that's why there's so many coaches out there as well.

Nital Phull [: 00:05:27

Like, different coaches for different people. Absolutely. So for those people, I would just really recommend them to sorta Keep trying to find different people that may be a better fit for them, that they may really be able to be impacted by. Because I can speak to my experience. I've had life coaches. I've had career coaches as well, and they've made a profound impact on my life. And they've really helped me in ways that I couldn't have helped myself.

Janice Chaka [: 00:05:55

So I'm gonna piggyback on that question. I'll I I loved all the things that you were saying. When in your career did you make that change to invest in yourself to get a coach, whether it be a life coach, career coach, whatever type of coach it was, What stage of your career were you at when you made that decision?

Nital Phull [: 00:06:14

I have always been interested in self Development, personal development. And it was when I first became a manager, so when I first had people who were working for me, that I felt a really great sense of responsibility to be focusing on myself. Like, I remember one day being really stressed at work, and then I thought to myself, Wait a minute. These the other people are watching. I need to manage myself better. So if I've got problems, I need to Talk about it with someone like a coach. And at that time, it wasn't really a coach. It was like a mentor that I had, but there was some parts where she coached me as well.

Nital Phull [: 00:06:50

It all blurred into one. So that was that. And then in my personal sort of life, there was there was points where I was going through sort of difficult periods, and that's when I opted for a life coach. So I hope you answered your question. It was yeah. When I moved to a a manager role and then throughout my since then, I've actually worked with a few coaches.

Janice Chaka [: 00:07:09

Yeah. Okay? But, yeah, it did answer my question. Thank you so very much. And so is this something that you have done on a regular basis that has helped improve your career and or business?

Nital Phull [: 00:07:19

One of the things that I've implemented a little while ago but, actually, I've started to do it a lot more consistently now. I'm not sure if you've read The Atomic Habits book by James Clear, which is a fantastic book. But he obviously talks about how you can make Small changes in your life to get really big impact. And at that time, I was, trying to be more grateful. I knew that, you know, expressing gratitude on a regular basis can make you think more positively and can really change your thoughts and the actions you take and the outcomes you get. So I implemented A daily check-in. And it was, as I said, more about gratitude at the beginning. So I was in the morning thinking about 3 things I was grateful for, And in the evening, it was, you know, 3 things that went well, etcetera.

Nital Phull [: 00:08:04

I started to expand on that, and I started to to write or even think about Because if I didn't have time to write it down, I would just go through it in my head. So think about what went well, what didn't go well, why, and what can I do about it? And I found it went one of 2 ways. So either there was something that I could do about the situation and take an action. And for those situations, I shifted my focus from what went wrong to actually acting on it. And then the other part of it was If there was nothing I can do because maybe the moment has passed or because it's really outside of my control, I really had to try and shift my focus to remembering and reminding myself it's out of my control. So really limiting the amount I ruminated on it. Because I am a serial overthinker, and I come from a family of overthinkers. So I don't think anyone can blame me.

Nital Phull [: 00:08:58

But I know that how much overthinking has sort of taken over my mind in the past and how much Time it takes, how much effort it takes, how much energy it takes. And I'm sure you know this, Janice, because you're an introvert as well that if for any introverts, You're you have to protect your energy.

Janice Chaka [: 00:09:17

Yeah. Well, that's really interesting, about Even if you couldn't write it down, you still went through it in your mind instead of berating yourself of, oh, no. I didn't write it down so I must stop or I didn't get the habit or, like, whatever it was. So, that's That's really important and powerful. Is this something that you regularly say no? No. No. It doesn't have to be regularly. Is that something that you say no to?

Nital Phull [: 00:09:38

Yeah. Good question, actually. If I think about what I can say no to I don't say no to chocolate, definitely. But I would say no to anything outside of my core values, anything that was going against of my core values. My values are quite broad, so they're things like home security, autonomy, health, etcetera. So I would Say no to anything that was going against that. And when I knew that I was saying no because of that reason, it would just make it so much easier. I'd feel A lot less guilt.

Nital Phull [: 00:10:13

And guilt was usually the reason I would say yes many of the times, so that made a big difference to me.

Janice Chaka [: 00:10:19

Oh, yeah. And guilt uses up a lot a lot of energy. So you mentioned that some of the work that you do that you work with with leaders, and so do you In your opinion, are leaders born or cultivated?

Nital Phull [: 00:10:32

I would a 100% say they're cultivated. I mean, if you think It depends, you know, what we mean by the whole question. But if I think if we think about anyone, like even a sports person, like Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, etcetera, David Beckham, they're not born being great at what they do. They maybe have a certain bit of talent and they continue to work on it. So it's what I believe in more is that It's everyone someone has a growth mindset. They believe in effort over talent. So you can have some sort of, like, pure talent that's innate in you. But if you're not working on it in the right way and if you don't manage failures in the right way, you you don't go fur further.

Nital Phull [: 00:11:12

You don't succeed anymore. So for leadership, I feel like, again, you learn through experience.

Janice Chaka [: 00:11:24

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And so with learning through experience as leadership, Do you have to be a manager to be a leader?

Nital Phull [: 00:11:35

No. So at the moment, in my role as a career coach, I would say that I'm not, you You know, managing anyone, but I would still be leading. In in this situation, I'm leading myself or I'm leading other people towards a vision. So the way I describe a leader is someone who empowers others, someone who can influence, someone who sets a vision And brings people towards that vision, brings people together for that. And the way I describe a manager is someone who actually helps to get the task done. They enable the people. They make that they have the right people, processes, technology, etcetera, in place to achieve a certain goal. So using those sort of definitions, Anyone at any level can be a leader.

Nital Phull [: 00:12:17

And I can say from my own experience, actually, when I, became a manager, I had people that joined my team. And, honestly, like, there was a point where I felt, actually, you're so much better than me because you like, they had great leadership skills, but that was just me, you know, feeling my imposter syndrome feelings at that time. But I thought those people had come in who who are not managers working for me had great leadership skills.

Janice Chaka [: 00:12:41

So that begs the question, what to you are great leadership skills?

Nital Phull [: 00:12:45

To me so it's being able to, empower others, To influence others, to bring people together, to listen, to communicate well, those, for me, would be great leadership skills.

Janice Chaka [: 00:12:59

How did those show up in those other humans that turned up in your life where you were like, oh, you're better than me?

Nital Phull [: 00:13:05

So they would take ownership, And, that was something I really valued out of some of the team members that I had is that whenever I give them a task, they would take ownership of it, And they would run that from the start to the finish. So they would deal with all the stakeholders within that. They would do all of the the sort of management of the admin part as well. They would complete the task at the end. They would make sure that things the the the i's were dotted, the t's were crossed, and just make sure they did a good job. And that bit of taking sort of ownership made them become a leader for that sort of bit of work, if that makes sense.

Janice Chaka [: 00:13:41

Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so very much. So one kind of thing that comes up a lot is that introverts Can't be leaders. Interects can't be managers. I'm sure you have thoughts about that.

Nital Phull [: 00:13:58

Yes. I know some fantastic leaders who are introverts. And I would say that the It's not that they're better at it the next 1st effort. Like, I I I'm not gonna be here to make that sort of statement, but it's because of There's certain skills that they had because of their introversion, so they became sort of deep listeners. They were careful observers. They would reflect more. They would take into consideration sort of evidence or logic before they made decisions. So they weren't making rash decisions.

Nital Phull [: 00:14:31

They wouldn't Just comply with the rest of the group. So they don't think the loudest person in the room has to be right because they know inside them that that's not the case. So they take the time. And for me, people who make sort of informed decisions and take the time is is something I I respect Very, very deeply. So that for me is, like, just shows that introverts can be great leaders.

Janice Chaka [: 00:14:54

Awesome. Thank you. Alright. So surprise question, before we let you go. Is, in your opinion, is a, a hotdog a sandwich?

Nital Phull [: 00:15:03

That is a good question. So I'm gonna confess that I'm a vegetarian, so I've never eaten a hot dog. But, I know what a hotdog is, so I would say it is a sandwich. And the reason for that is because it's I'm gonna say 2 bits of bread, but I know it's not 2 bits of bread. One bit of bread Got something in the middle. But then I started thinking about burgers just now, and I don't know if I'd toss them a sandwich. So I don't wanna open that.

Janice Chaka [: 00:15:28

Pan of worms? Alright. Good job. Thank you. Can you please let everyone know where they can find out more about you and the work that you do?

Nital Phull [: 00:15:35

Of course. You can find me on LinkedIn. I post content on there regularly, and anyone can direct message me if they wanna find out a little bit more about what I do.

Janice Chaka [: 00:15:45

Awesome sauce. So thank you very much. I really appreciate you, sharing, your story, the things that you've done, and your opinion on things. It's It's been really interesting, and I love I just love hearing people opinions. So, everybody, this is Janice at the careerintrovert.com, helping you build your brand and get hired.