Career Conversations with Adrian Santiago

Janice Chaka [: 00:00:04

Hello and welcome to another another episode of the traveling intro or the career conversations. Today, we have Adrian Santiago. Hi, Adrian.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:00:14

Hello. How are you doing today?

Janice Chaka [: 00:00:16

I, Right Now I'm Doing Great. As we mentioned earlier, he was like, thanks for having me on the show, and I was like, Yeah. That's great. You're welcome. And then I was like, no. Wait. Hang on. This this could this could all go horribly wrong.

Janice Chaka [: 00:00:27

So we will see what happens.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:00:29

Yeah. Let's find out.

Janice Chaka [: 00:00:32

Yes. Let's see. So, pop quiz. It's not really. It's a question I ask everybody. What does introversion mean to you?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:00:41

Oh, man. I mean, for for me and my youth, I didn't really understand that I was introverted. You know? And, I probably would have done things a lot differently Had I known, it, it definitely ruined a lot of, like, outings where I I was the late one. I was always the late one because I, didn't wanna go. I don't I don't wanna go to places. I wanna stay home and watch my movies and read my books and stuff. And yet at the same time, I've I've worked, you know, customer service and hospitality since I was 16, and it teaches you people skills. It forces you to be good at Talking to people and stuff like that.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:01:16

So at this age, especially now with a wife and kids, alone time doesn't really exist very much. It means finding those little moments throughout the day to recharge that social battery and just kind of, like, spend time with yourself and your own thoughts and, again, a little reading or a little writing or whatnot. That's it it ultimately means to me that I have to sort of adjust things and, you know, put, my introvertedness in in a in a little pocket where I can kinda dig into from time to Time and just kinda relax in there and then come back out and pretend to be an extrovert.

Janice Chaka [: 00:01:55

So what I love that you mentioned there is that When You Were Younger, You Wish You'd Known. When did you discover more about introversion, and was it positive or negative?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:02:05

Oh, I I don't know if it's either positive or negative because, ultimately, everybody's either 1 or the other or some, like, mix of the 2 in between. You know? And and, again, with with all my experiences in customer services, I've sort of become that extroverted introvert that people, you know, hope that they can be. So not negative or positive or anything like that. Ultimately, you know, you learn about it, over the years as as you progress Through life, and and you start hearing the words, and you're like, oh, that's what I am. Oh, that it all makes so much sense now. You know? Like so, Yeah. I I wouldn't say it's either a positive or negative experience. It's more like, self discovery and understanding is what it all comes down to.

Janice Chaka [: 00:02:47

Okay. I think when I said yes. I think when I said positive or negative, it's because I've had some people say that in the past, when you looked up introversion or when you were told about introversion, it was very, negative.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:03:01

Sure. Yeah. People who don't really understand it, especially on the introverted side. You know, they'll look at an introvert and be like, yo, man. Like, how come you don't wanna hang out? How come you're not talking as much as the other guys? Are you antisocial? What's going on? Like, no, man. I just you know? I'm in here. Just I

Janice Chaka [: 00:03:17

don't need to. I'm cool. I'm fine.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:03:18

Yeah. I'm just I forgot this audio only. In here means in my head. I'm on YouTube, though. I think in video.

Janice Chaka [: 00:03:28

It's just good that people just get to imagine where in here, it could be your heart. It could be your yeah. Anywhere. Anywhere. Anyone who

Adrian Santiago [: 00:03:33

just mind's eye comes up with is fine.

Janice Chaka [: 00:03:35

Yeah. Exactly. Alright. So, you mentioned that, some of the things you like doing is is our book related? Grammar. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:03:50

Well, you know, like most people, I have a I have a day job, but my career as I think about it is I'm an author. I I write, books, novels. My, series is called the mythic series. It's a big sci fi fantasy epic. And, the first novel is called shadow of the spark. It's a murder mystery set in that world in that world. Excuse me. And, it's definitely an adult book.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:04:13

It. It's got violence and language and sex and drugs and all kinds of crazy stuff like that, but it's all set in the future. And there's technology, and there's also a little magic. And, I try to type things into, like, Earth mythology as well. So we got, like, pyramid stuff in there. There's a little bit of something for everybody, romantic subplots. It's It's all in there. LGBTQ characters in lead roles, an ensemble cast.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:04:37

I love writing stories. I I love, you know, as an introvert, I do a lot of people watching. You know? Just kinda like sitting around in a coffee shop, enjoying my coffee, and and and seeing how nutty people can get. And, that just creates characters in my brain, and then I just have to spit them onto a page or else they'll just drive me nuts up here. So you know?

Janice Chaka [: 00:04:57

That's great. I've been so, with the writing, because you mentioned your day job, and we're not gonna talk about the day job. Because about day jobs. Yeah. No. Day job. I mean, this this is as early as I get up, so you're lucky you got me at this time. I don't do day.

Janice Chaka [: 00:05:12

I'd be like like, mid afternoon, evening jobs is not my sweet spot. So with the work that you do writing, can you tell me some misconceptions people might have about that process?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:05:24

About being an author? Yeah. Well, sure. I mean, you know, people think that, number 1, they they think it's probably pretty easy. Most people that, that I tell them that I'm an author, that I wrote a book. They're like, oh my god. I have this idea for a book. It all I gotta do is write it down. It's the whole thing is up here.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:05:41

I'm like, all you gotta do is write it down? Do you have any idea how insanely difficult that is? It took me 3 years to write this novel, and that's just Things that, Oh, what happened?

Janice Chaka [: 00:05:59

My Internet went. So we're gonna we're gonna pause, and I'm gonna ask the question again. And this is the one time I'm actually gonna have to edit something. So you mentioned that, you have a day job that we're not gonna talk about. Forget Day Jobs. We don't do that. In fact, I don't you know, we don't do days. And

Adrian Santiago [: 00:06:18

smell.

Janice Chaka [: 00:06:21

And so can you tell us some misconceptions people might have about the work that you do writing as an author?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:06:30

Yeah. So in in my experience, most people think that, you know, writing a book is is easy and that anybody can do it. You know? You tell somebody that, you're an author, that you've written a novel, and and they all tell you, oh, you know, I've got this great idea for a novel in my head. I I the whole thing is up there. All I gotta do is write it down, and They're not understanding that that's absolutely the hardest part. The idea is easy. The I anybody could just have ideas floating around in their heads, but actually writing a novel is insanely hard. It took me 3 years to finish this one.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:07:00

This is just the one that I finished. I've worked on other projects for years and never completed them because it's hard. And every time you think you're done, you go back and you read through and you realize it's hot garbage and you need to fix the whole thing. And other times, you think, oh, I know how to do this, and you start the process of doing something and you realize I have no idea how to do this. And you go and you research it and you realize there's like a whole book of skills that you don't have, that you have to master first before you can even complete this next chapter. And then you gotta start all of it's it's It's hard. It's hard. If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Janice Chaka [: 00:07:35

Right? Yes. And finding the time and the do you have to be in the right frame of mind? I say right frame of mind. Do you have to be in a specific mood to to write?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:07:48

Well, when I first started out, I I told myself that that I need to be in a certain mood. Oh, I'm in a mood right now. I can't I can't get it done. And that's the reason why it took so long to get things done. The 1st year and a half of working on this novel was very much like that. If I wasn't feeling it, I wasn't doing it. And that's just not gonna get it done. And I read a book called The War of Art By Steven Pressfield, and it completely changed how I work.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:08:16

He he addresses, shifting from an amateur to a professional. And he, you know, he brings up the idea of well, you know, you have a day job. Do you show up late to your day job? No. You show up on time. Do you, you know, wake up in the morning and say, you know, I'm not feeling it today, so I'm I'm not gonna go with no. You go into you show up To work every day on time. You do the work. You go home.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:08:43

And he's like, that's how you have to approach what you you know, your craft, your art. If you're a writer, every day, you gotta sit down and get the writing done. Whether it's a half hour session, an hour, 2 hours, whatever it is. You set that goal, and you get it done. You clock in, and you clock out like it's your job. And and I started doing that. And in that 2nd year and a half, I got 3 times as much writing done as as I did in that 1st year and a half, I finally finished the novel, and it was all because I I had to, like, hold myself accountable and, you know, make a schedule. I made a schedule Like A Job.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:09:19

And every day, I would sit down and get the right even if I didn't feel like it, even if I was sick, even if I hadn't eaten and I was cranky or I didn't have Diaz. It didn't matter if you know, people talk about writer's block. Oh, you sit down, and it's not flowing. What are you talking about flowing? Just make the clickety clack happen. And, like, eventually, things will work out. Like, just do the thing, and you'll get there. And that's, you know, once that that's who changed in me. Yeah.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:09:44

That whole, like, not feeling it thing doesn't come into it anymore. Now it's more like, you know, where am I gonna fit this, You know, writing time into my day. Like I said earlier, I got kids. I got a wife. For some reason, they like me and wanna hang out with me all the time.

Janice Chaka [: 00:09:57

I don't know how much time,

Adrian Santiago [: 00:09:58

but they do. And so I have To give them time and everything. And, you know, once they go to sleep or maybe I'll wake up early in the morning while everybody's asleep, and I'll put in my time and get my writing done because Gotta Do It. It's Gotta Get Done.

Janice Chaka [: 00:10:11

Right. That's really interesting about the well, the the thing that I've heard with books as well is with writing. You you it's a 1st draft. It's not gonna be it's not gonna be perfect when you when you when you sit and do as you said, do get the clickety clack done. So it doesn't matter I mean, yes, it matters, but it doesn't matter really in the grand scheme of things what the clickety clack is.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:10:32

That's exactly right. Yeah. You know, folks, one of my, problems in that 1st year and a half where I wasn't getting things done is I kept going back and reediting, rewriting the same chapters over and over. They're trying to get them perfect, trying to get them perfect. And one of my more accomplished author friends kinda smacked me over the head and was like, what are you doing? Just get to the end. Just just get To where you write the end, and then you can go back and edit and fix it. Your 1st draft is going to be garbage. It's supposed to be because The 1st draft is you telling yourself the story.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:11:05

And then the 2nd draft is you making it look like you knew what you were doing all along even though you didn't. So just get it done. And, you know, I can't take credit for that quote because that first half of that quote is is from, Terry Pratchett. He says, you know, the 1st draft is you, telling yourself the story, and then Neil Gaiman completed it. I mean. The one t punch. Is making it look like you knew what you were doing all along. So, yeah, just don't worry about it making sense.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:11:34

Don't worry about grammar and punctuation. Don't worry about spelling. Just write and get it done. Now because I I know myself and I and and if I see a typo, I'm gonna fix it. What I would do is I would I I adjusted my my, my my writing, process so that, let's say I start writing on Monday. Monday, I'll write a a new thing. On Tuesday, I'll edit that thing. And then on Wednesday, I'll write a new thing.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:11:59

And then on Thursday, I'll edit that thing. And then on Friday, I'll write a new thing and so on. And so I'm always moving forward, but I'm also going back and kinda cleaning things up just so, like, I don't drive myself crazy. Yeah.

Janice Chaka [: 00:12:10

Okay. That's good that you know yourself. You're like, okay. I get that I have to write stuff, but let me do it in a way that sort of works.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:12:17

Yeah. And that way, I get a cleaner 1st draft at the end and, you know, the the edit is a little easier on me even though it's the 1st draft is still hot garbage.

Janice Chaka [: 00:12:28

Oh that is wonderful, thank you. So I guess that's probably something that you do regularly that has improved your book writing. So conversely to that, what is something that you say no to?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:12:40

So, mhmm, in regards to writing or or, something that I say no to. That's a great question. I'm not sure. Well, you know, I I I have to have, like, my music going so that I'm in the right headspace and everything. As, you know, I'm in addition to being an introvert, I also have a touch of the ADHD. And so I tend to need multiple things going on in order to focus. And with writing, that's something that I say no to for myself. Other than having some music so that I could focus, and the music has to be lyricless just like, you know, movie scores and stuff like that, something with just instruments so that I I don't get logged into lyrics and stuff like that.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:13:20

But other than that, I I shut down the whole rest of my ADHDness. I say no to that because if I have, you know, no YouTube going or whatever. I'm never gonna get I'm gonna get distract exactly. I'm gonna my attention is gonna be diverted. So that's something I say no to, at least within myself. It's like, For for now, while you're writing, you are not ADHD. You just aren't. Focus.

Janice Chaka [: 00:13:43

So then my question then is for your writing, the the time that you spend writing, do you then make it smaller chunks because of this to give yourself a chance to go and be distracted, or is it like I'm just gonna sit here for, like, a long period of time?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:13:58

That's a great question. I used to try to force the ladder where I would try to force myself to just write for 2 straight hours and never stop, and that's not dirty burnout. So what I do now is sprinting. I will write for 25 minutes, and then I'll take a a 5 to 10 minute break. And then I'll write for 25 minutes, and I'll take a 5 and I use timers so that I, you know, I don't get, you know, lost in something else. I'll get up to get some water, use the bathroom, get a snack, whatever it is. You know, I might, you know, play a few minutes of Zelda or whatever and then put it down, get back to writing another 25 minutes and so on. And in that way, I found that I get a lot more done.

Janice Chaka [: 00:14:34

Yeah. I like that choice of I play a bit of Zelda because then if you're playing some other game, you have to pick something that you can pause at any point And just walk away from. Yeah. Walk away from. Then come come back. Oh, well, I just I just need to finish this insert thing here, then it's like, it's not it's not happening.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:14:52

Yeah. I I adhere to the, to the timers very strictly. As soon as that timer goes off, I don't care if I'm in the middle of fighting a boss. Like, that's where I stop, I shut it down, and I go back to writing. You have to be very disciplined like that.

Janice Chaka [: 00:15:04

Yeah. Sounds like it. Alright. And so with everything that you do. And you mentioned that you have a a more esteemed, writer friend. Can you can you tell me about if there's a connection or a person that you met that changed your life in some way?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:15:23

So maybe not a a person singular, but in in regards to the whole author thing, you know, I when I when I first started this thing. I I was on YouTube, and I saw this, author. Her name is Jenna Moreci. She has a a channel on YouTube where she writing advice. Very, you know, standard, like, beginners type stuff. You know? Here's the top 10 tropes that you should use in this genre, or here are the cliches that you should stay away from, and here's how you write a a climax or what you know, whatever it is. And, She had a huge following, and she tells a story about how she used to work a job that she hated in accounting or something like that, something with numbers, And, you know, putting all her time into something that she wasn't passionate about. And then finally, she just switched gears, be became an author, started her YouTube channel, grew an audience.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:16:14

And then by the time her 1st book came out, her audience was waiting for her book. And I was like, light bulb. Let's do that. So I started that, YouTube channel for myself. It slowly became an online platform. I I I have you know, I'm on all the social medias. I'm doing all the things. But the community on authortube, authortube is what we call it, where all the authors are talking about writing on YouTube, the community on authortube is is the one that changed my life.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:16:43

You know? That Jenna Moreci kind of she was the gateway drug. She sucked me in. But once I was in, it it was the camaraderie of all these authors, like helping each other out, you know, giving advice, sharing their experiences, and, you know, promoting each other and interviewing each other and all this kind of stuff. And, Ultimately, that's what my channel became is since I I I'm a fledgling writer. This is my 1st novel that that just came out. I'm I'm still learning the ropes, so to speak. I didn't wanna that guy who's like, here's how you write sci fi. Like, who who's gonna listen to me? Like, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:17:16

So instead, I interview other authors, and I learn from them. And I and I have. I give them a platform to share their knowledge, and that has really, really changed things for me, just being surrounded by other people who do what I do. You know, writing is such a lonely, career. Like, you're you're sitting in front of a computer or a typewriter or a notebook or whatever it is by yourself, alone with your thoughts, and just writing. And it it can get a little lonely, and you you maybe you don't know if you're doing it right. And, you know, you you need people to, like, Give you a little feedback. So having a community around you like that to, you know, share your writing with, share in their writing, and learn from them, and That that really changed things for me and and was definitely a big factor in getting things done for sure.

Janice Chaka [: 00:18:02

Yeah. That I'm I'm really glad that you brought that up because that's something I talk to about with my clients so that it's sort of like okay yes you have a job even day job related but you need peers in different industries so you can be like, so this thing happened at work. Is

Adrian Santiago [: 00:18:15

this Mhmm. Is this

Janice Chaka [: 00:18:16

is this how it's supposed to be, or, like, is this a problem? Well, just to vent, who will understand whatever language you use, whatever acronyms you use, because you can you can vent to your other half or your cat or your dog, but they're gonna be like, you just threw words at me. So that's great, Anna. I'm I'm glad that that has happened. I like that that, authortube for for those who are in crafts that have, like, floss tube.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:18:42

There you go.

Janice Chaka [: 00:18:43

They they rename it. Well, like, if you're into into if you're on Reddit and you're into, like, baking, it's breaded. So each each one I

Adrian Santiago [: 00:18:50

know. Breaded.

Janice Chaka [: 00:18:51

I know. I know. I love that one personally. That's a good one. So so each each one has their own little thing, and it's finding it. Like you said, you're just finding that gateway human that will lead you in. Mhmm. Thank you so very much.

Janice Chaka [: 00:19:02

So I have a question for you.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:19:05

Please.

Janice Chaka [: 00:19:06

Please do not think too deeply about this.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:19:08

Okay. I'll try.

Janice Chaka [: 00:19:10

I want your first off the cuff answer in your humble or esteemed no. In your esteemed opinion. Oh,

Adrian Santiago [: 00:19:18

Matt. Let me sit up straight.

Janice Chaka [: 00:19:19

There you go. In your esteemed opinion, is a hot dog a sandwich?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:19:25

If it was a sandwich, it would be called a sandwich. It's a hot dog. Hot dog is a hot dog, and a sandwich is a sandwich. I get why people ask that. The bread. There's meat in between. Okay. I get it.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:19:34

But if, you know, if we're doing that, then so is a taco and so is a quesadilla and, like, so is a pizza. Like, like, what are we doing here? A sandwich is a sandwich, and dog is a hot dog.

Janice Chaka [: 00:19:46

Alright. There you have it, folks. So, Adrian, please, can you tell my audience where they can find out more about you and what you do?

Adrian Santiago [: 00:19:54

Oh, it's easy. You go to books by adrianne.com. Adrianne is spelled a d r I a n. So books by adrianne.com. From there, you can get to my book in all its formats. That's an ebook. It's in paperback. You can buy signed personalized copies directly from myself on there.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:20:11

I also have, you know, my YouTube channel, you can find through there. My social medias, you can find through there. Everything connects to that website. And, Most easily, you can sign up for the newsletter on there. I send out a newsletter every week on Friday, keeping everybody updated with what's coming up the next week, book sales, when they're happening, all that kind of stuff. So books by adrienne.com, easiest way.

Janice Chaka [: 00:20:33

I love the way you named it book by Adrian. You're like, I'm gonna set myself up.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:20:38

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I've I technically, I've published 2 already because before the novel, I published a short story that It it's kinda like a prologue. It leads into the novel, and I use it as a nice little, what's it called? A reader magnet. You know? Yes. So, yeah, books by I'm already working on the sequel. I'm working on some short stories, a short story collection that's coming out next year.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:21:00

So, yes, all the books will be on there. Books by Adrienne.

Janice Chaka [: 00:21:05

Exciting. Thank you so very much. This is Janice from the career introvert helping you build your brand and get hired. Have a great rest of your week.

Adrian Santiago [: 00:21:12

Thank you so much for having me.

Janice Chaka [: 00:21:15

Yeah. It wasn't so bad.